Can Triston McKenzie work his way back to the Guardians in 2024? (Podcast) (2024)

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Triston McKenzie is back with the Triple-A Columbus Clippers after the Guardians optioned the right-handed starter over the weekend to make room for Gavin Williams on the roster. Can McKenzie work his way back to a spot with the big league club, and what will his role be if and when he does return?

On Tuesday’s podcast, Paul Hoynes and Joe Noga look at McKenzie’s future in Cleveland and how he could best help the team this season.

Listen and read along with an AI-generated transcript of the podcast below.

Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Joe Noga (00:15):

Welcome back to the Cleveland Baseball Talk podcast. I’m Joe Noga, joined by Paul Hos. The Guardians lose three or four to the Royals over the weekend. They’ve lost four of their last five after winning seven in a row. They’re coming off a 13 game stretch that really was a bunch of games in extreme heat, a long drawn out sort of just a gauntlet for this team to get through. What were manager Steven v’s. Thoughts after the game on Sunday heading into their off day Monday as this team really just, if there was a team that needed an off day, it’s the Guardians.

Paul Hoynes (00:57):

Yeah, Joe Vote was, he was kind of upset. They didn’t win the series. They had a chance to at least split the series with a win Sunday. It didn’t happen against the Royals, but he really was, he said he was proud of the ball club for the way they played during that 13 game stretch. He said there was a lot of really, they played good teams in a lot of them kind of high emotion games, like you were saying, hot weather. They played Seattle, Toronto, Baltimore, and Kansas City in that stretch. And he goes, we’re going to enjoy the off day on Monday. And then we play 13 more straight games going into the all-Star break.

Joe Noga (01:44):

Yeah. And right now the twins are six games back. The Royals now seven games back in the American League Central, so they’ve still got a pretty comfortable lead in the division there, but now they open up a stretch against some teams right here on this home stand where they’re teams that are beatable and they’re teams that the guardians should be beating. But so far this year they’re four and three against the White Sox. I’m sorry, the White Sox are four and three against Cleveland and historically, at least over the last decade or so, the Giants have pretty much owned them. They’re 13 and two against Cleveland since 2011. Just this upcoming stretch and is particularly this home stand over the holiday week. What are we looking for out of the guardians in that stretch?

Paul Hoynes (02:36):

Yeah, this is a classic trap home stand, Joe. I mean it seems like everything is in Cleveland’s favor, but they’re playing two really teams that they’ve had problems with. Let’s be honest, the last time they faced the White Sox was in May at guaranteed rate field. They lose three out of four. And as you said, the Giants have just owned these guys. I don’t know what it is that the Giants come to Progressive Field, they beat ‘em. Cleveland goes out to San Francisco and gets beat. They went one and two last year against the Giants. Oh, and three and 22, 1 and two and 17, oh and three and 14, oh and three and 11 and Joe, we’re not even talking about the 1954 World Series.

Joe Noga (03:27):

Well, let’s continue to not talk about the 1954 World Series because none of us want to think about that over the weekend. The big news coming out of Cleveland’s camp, the Tristan McKenzie move, McKenzie has another pretty much struggles through another start in Kansas City. And then the next day in order to open up a roster spot for Gavin Williams, the guardian’s option, Mackenzie to AAA ostensibly to try and go out there and work on his mechanics, work on his delivery and his command because so far what he’s been doing hasn’t been effective. We saw him spiking balls into the dirt. We saw him throwing balls to the backstop. He says he’s healthy. He says he’s not throwing with any pain, but is it enough that he says that? Is there something more to what’s going on with Tristan McKenzie?

Paul Hoynes (04:30):

Well, Joe, he says he’s healthy. The guardian’s medical staff has examined this guy. They and tested him. They say he’s healthy. Tristan, we’ve seen Tristan go through these stretches before, I believe in 2021 he got sent down to Columbus. That was the last time they optioned him down there. So he looks like a guy searching for things, Joe. He doesn’t look real confident on the mound, his body language. He gives up a hit and he looks beaten out there and that’s not him. He’s smart enough to know that. I remember, you just can’t let the other team know that you’re struggling. Even if you’re getting hammered, you got to act like don’t let ‘em see you sweat. And right now Tristan is having troubles with that and the numbers are painful as well. Joe, he leads the league and home runs allowed. He leads the league and walks. We’ve seen that before as well. We thought Tristan had overcome that, but it’s all coming back to him right now. I think he needs to go to Columbus, take a deep breath, work on his mechanics and if he is healthy, Joe, I, he’ll be back here.

Joe Noga (05:59):

But what role would he be in if he comes back is the big question. Do you bring him back as a starter? Do you trust him to go out there and get you 4, 5, 6 innings if he comes back? Or do you put him in some sort of relief role? I mean, if he’s a two pitch pitcher, if he’s a fastball curve ball pitcher, that plays as a reliever, that plays as a guy who can come in. Maybe his stuff plays up, his velocity ticks up, maybe his stuff his better quality if he’s only used in one or two inning bursts. Does Tristan McKenzie’s future with this club look like it could be in the bullpen?

Paul Hoynes (06:40):

That’s a great question. I have not thought about that. Always. When I think of Tristan, I think of him as a starter. And if he says he’s healthy and he is healthy, see, my concern when I think of him as a reliever is the up downs you go through, you pitch maybe four or five times, four times a week. Would he be able to withstand at, would his frame be able to withstand at? So that’s the only question I have with a move like that.

Joe Noga (07:12):

Yeah. And is there a need right now in that bullpen for something like that is the other big question in terms of the fit with the club. So I mean putting him down at aaa, letting him get in as much work as he can down there and seeing how effective he can be at the AAA level, I think is a good thing. And it also opens up a roster spot for Gavin Williams who was sort of at the end of the line for his rehab. He has not pitched this year injured in spring training and has been on the 60 day injured list. So they had to make a move to get him back on the 40 man roster and that cost. Darren Mackin, his roster spot, he was DF ad, and then Williams steps into Mackenzie’s spot, not only on the roster but in the rotation. He’ll be starting on Wednesday against the White Sox. What can we expect from Gavin Williams?

Paul Hoynes (08:16):

I think right now it looked like he’s still kind of feeling his way, Joe. He really didn’t pitch too deep into any of his rehab games. His rehab starts maybe five innings he maxed out at, but they were happy that he got his pitch count up to 80, 85 pitches. So I think that’s probably the kind of the target zone going into Wednesday. Start five innings, 80 pitches, 85 pitches. Chris Antti over the weekend said that he’s going to be on a pitch count. There’s going to be restrictions on him just because it’s taken him so long to get back up to speed and get back into the big league rotation. We’re at the halfway point of the season, so he’s been grinding for a long time. But I’m kind of excited to see this, Joe. I mean we saw the possibilities of him last season when he made his debut. He made 16 starts, 81 strikeouts and 82 innings. He throws hard, he’s got some decent off speed pitches. I just think this is a guy they anticipated being in the rotation from day one and now he’s back in there and it’s his job to lose Joe. He can really cement himself in that rotation if he gives them consistent innings and gives him a chance to win every time out.

Joe Noga (09:52):

Is it possible that we might have too high expectations for Gavin Williams at this point? Because considering that they’re going to have constraints on ‘em, they’re going to have limits on ‘em and he might only be giving them three, maybe four innings a start here in these first couple of starts before he starts to figure things out and gets a little more comfortable. Major League hitters, if you show them any sort of weakness, they’re going to be able to take advantage of it. Do you envision some long, long type short outings for Gavin Williams?

Paul Hoynes (10:30):

Well, I think the first couple times out probably aren’t going to be the greatest, but I think this guy’s been waiting a half a season, Joe. I mean he’s been throwing in good years, he’s been on rehab starts, he’s been throwing bullpens for the guardians. If he’s not ready now, he’s not going to be ready. So it’s time to see what he can do. I don’t think they’d send him to the mound if there was a question about his elbow and just I think it’s going to be obviously kind of a gradual process as Antoinette said. But he’s got the whole second half here to really kind of reestablish himself and get his career going in the right direction.

Joe Noga (11:18):

The pitching rotation for the series against the White Sox, Carlos Carrasco against Chris Flexon, Gavin Williams against Eric Ty on Wednesday, and then on the 4th of July, Ben Lively versus Drew Thorpe. So Ben Lively backing up Gavin Williams there would’ve liked to have seen it. Maybe if that spot would’ve been Tanner Ivy instead of anybody else really, because Bibe can get you 5, 6, 7 innings if your bullpen gets burned by Williams going short that first start. But the way the rotation shook out, it’s been lively. Ben Lively can get you five six innings a start there. So should be interesting to see how Steven VO manages Gavin Williams manages the bullpen over this holiday week with a day game after the night game on Thursday afternoon. Heading into that. Alright, Hoey, I want to remind our listeners the best way to get updates on the rotation, on injuries on Moves with the Guardians is Guardian Subtext. It’s our subscription texting service. It’s 3 99 a month. You get updates sent directly to your phone. You skip social media and hear straight from us. Go to cleveland.com/subtext or send a text message to 2 1 6 2 0 8 4 3 4 6 to sign up there. Another move that was made official over the weekend, Matthew Boyd officially signs a major league contract with the guardians. We got an update from Chris Anton Netti on what their plans are with Matthew Boyd. Looks like Boyd could be an option a little further down the road this season.

Paul Hoynes (13:07):

Yeah, he’s throwing live BP Joe. I don’t think he’s really even, I don’t know if he’s gone to Goodyear or not, but I know he is not with one of their minor league clubs yet. He’s still progressing through the BP side of his rehab. Chris Antoinette, he said that if all things go well, he should be able to, will be added to the rotation in August. So that’s something to look forward to. Cleveland has a really good track record on Boyd. He’s faced in what, 16, 17 times as a member of the Tigers. They know him well and so we’ll see how this goes. It’s kind of a shot in the dark, Joe, with the trade deadline coming up, I think it’s more of a insurance policy and it sounds like they reached an agreement with Boyd. Part of it is, okay, we’ll help you rehab and try to get you back to full strength and in return maybe we get 6, 7, 8 starts from you down the stretch,

Joe Noga (14:18):

Right? Yeah. And that sounds like what the agreement was. And really the guardians were one of the teams out there. We asked Antonette if they were one of the teams that watched him throw during his showcase in early June out in California and they said they’ve been up on all the metrics and all the tracking that they’ve done with his throwing program. They know everything about him in terms of where he is physically at this 0.1 year after surgery. So crazier things have happened than Matthew Boyd stepping in and giving the guardians what they need. But I agree with you, it seems like an insurance policy against striking out on the trade market when it comes to acquiring an arm because starting pitching is what everybody is going to be after at this trade deadline. And that used to be what the guardians had an abundance of.

(15:17):

And now it’s just what everybody is seeking because of the epidemic of elbow injuries in Major League baseball. Speaking of an epidemic, the John Kenzie Noel epidemic is spreading through the clubhouse for the guardians and it will soon arrive at Progressive Field tonight for the opener of this three game series against the White Sox. John Kenzie Noel, just, he’s big Christmas, he’s a big personality, he’s a big everything including a big home run on Saturday that really wasn’t a home run. What’d you see when John Kenzie Noel wrapped that two run shot around the foul poll or did he against Kansas City for the win on Saturday?

Paul Hoynes (16:10):

I didn’t see it, Joe. You hit it so hard. I couldn’t foul the ball off the bat. I mean I thought it was a foul, but the umpires set it and hit or they couldn’t tell for sure if it did not kind of clip off the foul pole and then hit a black bar that was holding the protective netting for the fans down the left field line, which was in foul territory. And so it stood as a home run. It left what left his bat at 115.4 miles an hour, the hardest hit home run by a Cleveland player in the Statcast era. And Joe, he swung and it was gone. It was like in a heartbeat, it was gone. So like you said, this guy is big, he’s got power and he’s a fun guy to be around

Joe Noga (17:07):

And a couple of things about that. His personality is great. We’ve seen him on social media from the Columbus Clippers, just interviews with him. He’s very engaging and is the kind of guy that you want to talk to and hope he hits a home run because then you get to talk to him after a game. Also the raw power that you spoke about. But it was a couple of instances in some of those at bats over the weekend that we saw where he demonstrated a little bit more patience and there’s going to be a lot of swing and miss with this guy. He’s going to go outside the zone and try hit a ball to the moon. But a couple of times this weekend we saw him lay off some pitches and maybe there’s some hope there that the light bulb goes off again. He’s only 22 years old. That’s the crazy thing is that he’s so young, but if he’s able to demonstrate the kind of patients that maybe an Oscar Gonzalez wasn’t able to demonstrate and his chase rate stays relatively low, then maybe you’ve got something there.

Paul Hoynes (18:20):

Yeah, Joe, I mean what he hit 2 95 in Columbus, he still struck out a lot. But that shows a guy that has taken the approach where, look, I can make contact if I make contact, that’s a good thing and I’m strong enough that if I keep making contact, I’m going to hit the ball out of the yard or do damage or put it in the gap and do damage. So I think that’s the right approach and he seems to have taken to that this season. It’s not all swing and miss. I think he had a double, I believe against Kansas City on this road trip. What? He’s got two hits or three hits, two home runs and a double. So I think hopefully, who knows Joe? I mean we haven’t seen a whole lot of ‘em, but he’s got a chance and he’s started well and there’s nothing like confidence for a hitter that starts hot. And I liked the way, the thing that surprised me, Joe, is that he moves around pretty good in right field as well too. I think he’d be kind of a plotter at 2 66, 3 2 60, but he can move it out there.

Joe Noga (19:40):

Yeah, he is a big guy and he does move pretty well. He’s going to be with Will Brennan being injured. He’s going to be basically in a platoon with Daniel Schneemann out there in RO field for the foreseeable future. So your right field defense might not be as great as it was with Will Brennan out there, but it doesn’t look like you’re really losing too much with the two of them right now. Patrolling right field.

Paul Hoynes (20:13):

Yeah, Schumann had the problem in the one ball. The triple that got over his head against the Royals cost him a game. But overall, I think he’s a really a good athlete. They’ve asked a lot of him. I think he’s played six, seven different positions since he’s come up at what, June 2nd. So I think, yeah, will Brennan’s a better defender out there than Noel and Schneeman, but those guys should do an adequate job when it comes to tracking down Pauls in right field.

Joe Noga (20:51):

Alright, let’s give an update on the All-Star game. The second phase of voting, the finals phase of voting started over the weekend. Jose Ramirez, Steven Kwan are the guardian’s finalists at their positions. Ramirez, we expect to be pretty much a lock to start at third base for the American League. It would be his third win of the fan voting in his sixth all-star appearance. Kwan looking to become the first guardians first Cleveland outfielder to start in an American League outfield since 2001 when Juan Gonzalez was elected to start in the American League outfield. Juan basically has to beat Anthony Santander from Baltimore because Juan Soto is going to take one of those final two spots in the outfield. Aaron Judge wins the most votes in the phase one, so he gets an automatic spot in the outfield. Soto will be number two. So that third spot’s up for grabs between Santander, Kwan and Kyle Tucker. Of course Tucker hasn’t played since early June. So really it’s between Kwan and Santander and Wan’s really got the edge on him right now, statistically in a lot of ways. So we’ll see if Kwan can make it. Theres what’s your guess right now? Do the Guardians get two all-star starters or do they get just the one?

Paul Hoynes (22:29):

I think Joe, I think Qua gets in there. I think he’s going to finish strong. Santander what, he had 11, 12 home runs in June, had a big, big June. I think he set a club record for home runs in the month of June. So don’t overlook him. And it shas me that he came up through the Guardian system, the Cleveland system, and they lose him into rule five, pick the rule five draft, and he turns out to be just what they needed, a power hitting outfielder and now he’s going head to head with Quan. So there’s some irony there, but I think Juan should get it. Hopefully he gets it. He certainly has deserved, he certainly deserves it

Joe Noga (23:16):

Over the weekend. We got talked to Chris Antti briefly. We’re going to talk to him a little bit more on Wednesday specifically about the draft. Just what were your impressions coming out of that conversation and what Antti said about what the guardians are going to do with that number one pick?

Paul Hoynes (23:35):

Yeah, he said that they have spent so much time on his draft class that they really probably know this draft class as well, if not better than any class they prepared for. And Joey, when you think about it, having the number one pick is a good thing. I mean it’s a great thing, but it kind of changes the dynamic of how you scout the class because you really have to look at the entire class, high school, college players, international guy, or just all those players. Because usually in Cleveland’s case, they’ve usually been a contender. A lot of times they’ve been to the postseason. So they’re always drafting 16, 17, 18th 20th in the first round. So you’ve got kind of a sweet spot to scout who the top five six guys are. And unless something happens and they slide to you, you don’t even worry about those guys. But you’re concentrating on that, the tier of players that’ll probably fall into the mid to late round the picks in the first round. But now as the first round, when you got the first round pick, you got to scout everybody.

Joe Noga (24:56):

And that could lend itself to a benefit later on if as these guys progressed through the minor league systems for other teams. And if you’re looking to make trades, if you’re looking to make acquisitions two, three years down the line, you’re going to have a wider sort of understanding and there might be more or different targets for you if you’re looking to make trades later based on what you learned about this to the top of this draft class during your research here. So it could have benefits for them years from now that we haven’t even thought about yet.

Paul Hoynes (25:41):

Yeah, that’s a great point. And I know this is, but there’s a guy, when Arizona took Trevor Bauer, what with the second or in a high pick in the first round, when the year he went out, the guardians had interviewed Bauer extensively during that draft process, really liked him and that played a role in them going out and getting him and acquiring him in that trade that eventually brought him to Cleveland. So just from the work they’d done in the draft, they liked Bauer as a pitcher and that led to him getting him. So I think that happens a lot.

Joe Noga (26:22):

Yeah, it’s more often probably than we even realize. Alright, Hoey, that’s going to wrap up. Today’s edition of the Cleveland Baseball Talk podcast series opens tonight at the ballpark. Like we said, Carlos Carrasco on the mound, he’s taking on Chris Flexon and the White Sox. We’ll have a wrap up tomorrow morning and talk to you then.

Speaker 3 (26:44):

Okay, Joe.

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